S2 Episode 40: Talk Nerdy to Me pt. 2: Emotional Intelligence, Employment, and Entrepreneurial Acumen

Note: Transcripts are computer generated

Narrator 00:00
Sugar and Spikes is a science backed and semi sarcastic mental health podcast for a new type of business leader. Mental health concerns are occasionally addressed. But this podcast is not intended to diagnose or treat any condition, mental, physical, metaphysical, or otherwise, that's a job for your doctor or therapist, not a podcast. Now that we've got that out of the way, let's get on with the show.

Dez 00:40
Welcome back to another episode of the Sugar and Spikes podcast. I'm Dez, I am a serial content creator and your co hostess with the mostest and my iPad thinks I said Siri, go away.

Tammy 00:56
Well, I'm Tammy, I am a psychologist. I don't have any follow up to that to kind of like make it lead into anything. But it feels weird to just be like and stop.

Dez 01:07
Eh but it works. And you you saw your way through the weirdness. You acknowledged you emotionally acknowledged the situation you were aware of it. You read the room, which, hey, ties right into what we're talking about this week.

Tammy 01:26
I wasn't even trying. Hey, go me!

Dez 01:31
That was very emotionally intelligent of you.

Tammy 01:35
Thank you. Yes. Some would say as a psychologist that I have high emotional intelligence.

Dez 01:42
Emotional intelligence is it's fun, because it's kind of one of those things that I think for those of us that went through psych grad school, the two of us here in anyone listening, or even I think business school, because it's kind of like a trendy business thing.

Tammy 01:58
Well remember that leadership, horrible leadership class. That was like my one takeaway

Dez 02:05
It's, but it's this thing that is talked about in various programs. That's kind of like entry level, and you can kind of gloss over it. But really, there's a lot to unpack, and there's a lot to work with, and is a pretty like, malleable and, you know, a skill you can develop.

Tammy 02:27

Yeah. It's true

Dez 02:29
That has been shown to support the idea that like that helps success and things like that. But it's also something that isn't often talked about in like larger circles. Like I think folks that want to be school and I guess a grad school, we hear about it. But if you're just like making your way through life, you know, doing the doing the job thing, or the starting a business thing emotional intel, like you don't sit down, you're like, I need to work on my emotional intelligence.

Tammy 03:00
Yeah, probably not. Yeah. Like, we could talk about it, though for like an hour, and still not even have like scratched the surface. So..

Dez 03:09
There are programs around it. You know, there are whole certificate programs. A lot of psychologists and behavioral scientists dedicate their life to it, right? It is a deep, deep topic. It is. But for those of you who are listening, who are not behavioral scientists, or psychologists, or ready to commit your life to studying emotional intelligence, let's open up with what is emotional intelligence?

Tammy 03:41
Okay, I was gonna say, let's open it with what is not, but we'll go your way first.

Dez 03:45

What is it not?

Tammy 03:47
I think the first thing is people probably think, Oh, it's an trait. It's like a personality trait. I either have it or I don't. And all I want to say before we jump into what it is, is that it's not true.

Dez 03:59
Yeah. Would you believe that somebody once told me that I had no emotional intelligence?

Tammy 04:06
That's so ridiculous. It still makes me laugh like with, I'm like, so I can't I can't I don't even have words. Like, what are you even fucking telling me right now? Yeah, so not true.

Dez 04:19
So, fun fact, if someone tells you that you don't have emotional intelligence, you can probably safely bet that they're the ones without it.

Tammy 04:29
Right. I was gonna say then you know that they don't have emotional intelligence. Because that is not how you would say that.

Dez 04:34
I was going to say that is something no one would say.

Tammy 04:37
I would never say that to somebody. No. I feel like that is so horrible.

Dez 04:40

Yeah.

Tammy 04:41

Judgy.

Dez 04:42

Yeah.

Tammy 04:42
And like, I'm judgy in other ways. But that's still shitty.

Dez 04:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tammy 04:47
So I mean, at its very core...

Dez 04:49
Wait were you going to continue dispelling myths.

Tammy 04:52
No, no, no. I just wanted to do that one.

Dez 04:54

Cool.

Tammy 04:55

I'm being selective.

Dez 04:56

Okay.

Tammy 04:57
I'm trying to like, edit. I don't know.

Dez 05:01
Have you listened to the podcast?

Tammy 05:07
I'm trying to be someone I'm not that, I guess. (laughter) Okay. But that's all I'm gonna say. It is not a personality trait.

Dez 05:16
Well, I think that that is good. Because so if I were not myself, and if someone had told me, Hey, you don't have emotional intelligence, that could have kind of screwed me over.

Tammy 05:24

I know!

Dez 05:25
You know, that could have really hurt.

Tammy 05:27
It really hurt anyway, but in ..

Dez 05:30
In a different way. But like, yeah, thrown me off course, it could have almost done a certain type of damage. If If I had this idea that it was a trait, and it's a trait that, you know, successful people have, and someone told me, I don't have it, then I'm screwed. I'm never going to be successful. And it could have like, really set me down this other type of spiral.

Tammy 05:47
Well, don't you know that all you have to do is wake up early.

Dez 05:50
Right, right, right. That's the only thing for your success in life.

Tammy 05:54
So even though you didn't have emotional intelligence, you could override that with getting up early. I'm sorry, that's just so ridiculous to me every time I think about it, anyway. Okay. So it's not personality, right. And I think that that's important, because you're right, like, and it made me think of a discussion we were just having where I'm like, well, it's like a tape that you play in your head, then I, I don't have any emotional intelligence, I'm not an emotionally intelligent person, like it just becomes, it can become part of your own narrative for yourself. And not even that you would even know that it did, but it just did. You know. So it's all in what we tell ourselves. But anyway, emotional intelligence, it helps us to be aware of our emotions, to be able to identify them. And to kind of use them to our advantage and like, the way that I think about it is, so in regards to yourself, it's like, knowing your process, right? Like, the more you know, your process, the more you can use it to your advantage, right, and I, so like, I don't like change, I always want to go running back in the other direction. But I know that that's my process. So I know if I wait it out X amount of time that that feeling that emotion that whatever's going on, will go away. And so there's a certain amount of power in that, right, because you have this more objective view of how to manage yourself and your emotions and kind of harness the power. Right, to use them for good.

Dez 07:36

Yeah.

Tammy 07:37
The other thing is that having emotional intelligence in regards to others, it makes, it increases our empathy.

Dez 07:47

Mm hmm.

Tammy 07:50
It's kind of like, not putting yourself in the other person shoes. Because I don't really think that's empathy. But I think it's like, understanding what they're feeling in that moment. And really being side by side with them, if that makes sense. Because like, I think a lot of people have this idea, like, Oh, I haven't been through that. I don't know what it's like. And I'm like, that's true. But you've been sad before. You know how it feels to be sad.

Dez 08:24

Yeah.

Tammy 08:25
They're sad. So you can be sad and walk alongside them. You don't necessarily have to have experienced things in the exact way. Because you know, a lot of people say that, like with therapist, like, you don't know where I'm coming from, this has never happened to you, blah, blah, blah, right? Especially if like, you're a much like, younger therapist, and the and the clients a lot older. But I think that that's a misconception. It's like, how can you have empathy for me if you haven't walked in my shoes? But how can you have empathy? Well, I've been sad, you've been sad. We've all been sad, we can share in that together.

Dez 08:57
It's the like, I don't have to break up. But to know that a broken bone hurts.

Tammy 09:02

Yeah

Dez 09:03

You know?

Tammy 09:03

Yeah.

Dez 09:06
I think also, as you're talking about it, and maybe it's kind of the way that I'm listening, in my perspective that I'm bringing in, when you talk about like, being alongside a person and kind of walking with them. It sounds almost like a longer term situation or relationship which yes, emotional intelligence is it is foundational to relationship building. And business is nothing but relationship.

Tammy 09:35

Yep.

Dez 09:35
Not nothing. But you were talking like 90% relationship? It's like foundational. Yeah, it is key. But it can be, it can be in the moment, and very much a quick glimpse to help navigate that relationship building. Yeah, so almost like a read the room type situation or read the other person. Like, if I were to walk up to you, and you were at your desk, like, just so focused on something, it was now a good time to interrupt her if you've been trying to, like, work on something forever. Like, if I knew you'd been trying to do this project for a long time, and just kept getting trashed everything I saw you like in the zone checking in like, is this the best time? Yeah, probably not, I'm going to set a slack message.

Tammy 10:27
And also, like, if you're a manager, and you have to, you know, do the not fun parts of managing, you can help get the person through that situation with high levels of emotional intelligence, because it will color in a positive way. How you say the things you have to say, and how the things you say, help to kind of, what am I trying to say? There's a word I'm trying to use, and I can't think of what it is, oh, to like, modulate their emotions. Because like, we can't do that for them. But certainly, like, you can say something shitty, like this really hurtful way. Or you can say something in a more objective way that isn't like, it can be truth but not harsh, right. So that I would say would be good emotional intelligence, like, you know, this is gonna hurt, this isn't gonna feel good to have this conversation. So how can you give it in a way that like, honors both sides of that?

Dez 11:32
Mm hmm. An example of this would be not Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, right? Like he has next to no emotional intelligence, in terms of interacting with somebody. In fact, I think that's like the storyline where they try to teach them like, here's how to, like, read somebody.

Tammy 11:49
I don't know, that's kind of like his whole like, thing thing for as long as it was on I mean, like, that's what's kind of funny about it. Like, he doesn't get it.

Dez 11:58

Yeah.

Tammy 11:58
But it can be really obvious like that. But it can be subtle to like, think back to managers you've had or listeners managers you had, or coworkers, people in your life where you're like, I just don't feel like we're connected and like you keep missing each other somehow. Well, that might be due to the fact that like, you can't read each other. Right. And that's emotional intelligence. And so you can definitely teach it.

Dez 12:28
Well and I think also acknowledging it, and especially for work, and things like that, where there's kind of like a higher goal where it's like relationship to it to a goal. Yeah. Can be key, because I mean, using an example with us and the podcast recently, is, I think I explicitly said, I know, today's not a great day to record because you're in a place. And here's why I am like, making us do it.

Tammy 13:02
Right. Yeah. presented it in another way, then usually, it's just like, what time you're coming over to record, right? You knew like, that isn't gonna work this time.

Dez 13:09
Yeah. Well, and like connecting it to the bigger goal beyond simply having it be a recording session. It's like I get it. But this is the end that we're working towards.

Tammy 13:24
But the I get it part is the important part. Yeah. Right. So like, you get it, I'm kind of like, maxed out at the moment. And you even said, like, and I recognize that maybe asking to do as much in a day as what I'm asking is unreasonable. And so let's go for it. But if it doesn't end up that way, that's fine. Yeah. So when you think about that, versus like, we had to record three episodes today.

Dez 13:47
And just leaving it there.

Tammy 13:48
Yeah. Like, both those things are objectively true. But which way which strategy is going to work better? Right. So that's like an real life example of kind of what I was saying in terms of like the concept.

Dez 14:02

Yeah.

Tammy 14:03
So managers with good, emotional intelligence, they get more out of their workers, they get worker, their people beneath them that are more invested in what they're doing. Because like, when you can buy into what your managers doing, and like, you feel like you're part of something greater, then you're willing to do more.

Dez 14:29

Right.

Tammy 14:32
And like, it's like, the same, but it's true, like people leave bad bosses, not bad jobs.

Dez 14:39

Oh, yeah.

Tammy 14:39
Like, so think about that. So you have somebody who talks to you every day, like we have to do this. We have to do that.

Dez 14:47
What is this? Where is this?

Tammy 14:49
Right? Why are you doing that? Like, does that seem like they really care? They really get you or like anything?

Dez 14:57
Or on the flip side? People that are too invested in emotions. Like, I can't think of any specific example that I've experienced. But I know that there are supervisors like that that are too like, I don't want to choose slowly to almost, but to like, are you sure is this okay? Like too people that like aren't confident in their spaces and

Tammy 15:23
People trying to tiptoe around people's emotions?

Dez 15:26

Yeah, like that.

Tammy 15:27
Like, I don't want to make you mad.

Dez 15:28
Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Like, I just wanna make sure this is okay. Are you sure? Are you? Are you sure? Like at that point, like you're dealing with an adult? And if you've given them space to say, Well, I don't have time and they have it, then that's on them. Move on, get the job done. Yeah. You know, because again, we're talking like, we're not talking about, you know, friendly, emotional intelligence, like, this is emotional intelligence in the workplace, right? Things like that.

Tammy 15:55
Like, it doesn't mean you don't have to deliver direct messages. It doesn't mean that you don't have to tell people things that they might not like. But it's like doing it in this way that like, honors and respects the other person, right. And so yeah,

Dez 16:09
There was something I was gonna say but sorry.

Tammy 16:11
No, no, no, totally fine. I just was like, I thought about it, and then it left it'll come back. Oh, I remember I was gonna say, so like, some people, I think, like, why I wanted to say what I think empathy is because sometimes I think empathy and sympathy get commingled. They're not the same thing. No, they're not like sympathy is like, the feeling what the other person's feeling like, being in their shoes. And like, it's almost like taking on somebody else's stuff.

Dez 16:47

Mm hmm.

Tammy 16:47
In a way to try and understand them. Whereas empathy isn't really like that you're not trying to step in and take control and carry that burden.

Dez 16:58

Right.

Tammy 16:58
You're trying to say, I recognize that you're carrying this right now. And it's really difficult. And I'm here to help.

Dez 17:05

Mm hmm.

Tammy 17:06

Very different.

Dez 17:07

Yeah.

Tammy 17:07
Right. So. And a lot of us do that, like people who have a lot of compassion, that can crossover really easily to like taking things on that aren't yours. Because you naturally care. So you have that's where boundaries come in. Right? I guess empathy is like sympathy with boundaries, right?

Dez 17:33

Mm hmm.

Tammy 17:33
I think a like an easy, quick way to put it. So sometimes, I think it's therapist particularly, you can check in with yourself every once in a while, if you're feeling a particular way, like am I carrying something that isn't mine to carry? But as a manager, you can do like the person who's like, are you okay? Oh, I didn't mean to like it's like caretaking the other person and like, taking on something that's not yours. Like they're, they work for you. They will do what you want, like stop tiptoeing around them. Yeah. And like caretaking when you don't need to. So yeah.

Dez 18:13
Do you have more of like, what, what emotional intelligence looks like?

Tammy 18:17
Oh, yeah. Sorry. I got off on a tangent.

Dez 18:20
No, no, I just I want to, I want to make sure we cover like kind of what, what it is, and because we kind of talked about, like, why it's important, but yeah.

Tammy 18:36
So. Okay. It is a way of relationship building in the moment, like, short term relationship building now. And it can, it can kind of like, go into the longer thing. But even if you you can have this in an interaction where you'll never see the person again, like angry customer and Starbucks. Now, you know, not pleasant. But you can kind of get it.

Dez 19:04
You can get the vibe, and you know, to be like, extra nice in that moment, like, Yes, sir.

Tammy 19:11
Or like, Hey, you know, you seem like you really need it. Go ahead. Yeah, you know, like, and you don't have to necessarily do it that way. But it's just a way of dealing with people where you're recognizing, yeah, what they need, or how to help in a particular way.

Dez 19:26
Exactly. And really helping and reading, reading the situation and using emotional intelligence, while either working with your coworkers or with customers or clients. It really sets you up as a leader. Yeah. Because there's going to be this natural level of trust that happens. And when will there's going to be a natural level of like people feeling heard. And when people feel heard, they trust you. And when you have someone's trust, you can get them to do bigger things, which goes back to what you're saying. Like, it brings more out of your employees. But I think also like, customers, clients, it builds good faith, really.

Tammy 20:13
I mean, and I think sometimes, if you're wondering if somebody has emotional intelligence, look at how they treat like, service stuff. Like, look how they order from a server in a restaurant. And that would kind of tell you.

Dez 20:31 Yeah.

Tammy 20:32
You know, like, are they being demanding and shitty? Or like, are they recognizing that it's busy, and there's like, one server, they're obviously short staffed, and like, being able to be like, Oh, yeah, I'm pretty annoyed. But that person that was like running around and doing the best they can. So like, you get it? You know? Yeah. And you can kind of like, change your... I don't know why my words are leaving me so much today. You can change how you were respond, right? Yeah. So

Dez 21:02
Well, and maybe, maybe emotional intelligence is hard. Like, I know, when the idea first gets brought up and stuff. It can seem a little overwhelming, I think, especially for like, I'm gonna make some sweeping judgments like analysts, um, folks that work with a lot of  numbers, statistician. Yeah. Even, you know, engineers, engineers, I would say a good amount of professors, coders, anyways, a lot of folks like, it can be hard, even designers, because there's so, anyways, there are so many fields where emotional intelligence isn't taught. And I think that that's one thing that we like Tammy and I have to remind ourselves, because it's the field that we spent so much time in.

Tammy 21:52
Well, I mean, I basically spent the last the last seven years like, cultivating my emotional intelligence.

Dez 22:00
Well, in marketing is reading the room of like, your customer base.

Tammy 22:03

Right.

Dez 22:04

So it's...

Tammy 22:05
So like that's like what we do. Yeah, that's what we do for a living, we have high emotional intelligence.

Dez 22:12
Exactly. But if you don't, because like, again, it helps with leadership, it helps it can help with like, giving or receiving performance reviews, and managing that in a professional way. And again, going back to that, becoming the go to leader, if those are things that like you're wanting to work towards, and you're like, well, I don't know, kind of where I fall on emotional intelligence, but I want to work on it. There are a couple ways to kind of go about that. Because the research says I mean, some of the research is a little split. But in general, the broad research shows that emotional intelligence is really influential in your level of success. I feel like I added all the caveats I needed to. (laughter)

Tammy 23:02
All the academic caveat. Yeah, it's really good. We see. We're not sure it's highly likely. (laughter)

Dez 23:08
Yeah. I'm, in general, it's really good to have. So if it's something really well, I'm not sure. And I want to kind of like, develop it, there are some things. So the first thing would be reflecting taking a minute and kind of holding a mirror to how you respond to situations and starting to become familiar with the emotions that pop up in even just minor situations. And I think even you and I do this to a certain degree where we get emails, and it's like, oh, she was not happy or not like, am I reading this right? Is, is this the tone? And, you know, sometimes it takes like asking someone else like, is this it like you can reflect? But especially if it's kind of new, or if this person is new, then getting like an outside an outsider's perspective like, maybe they're not like, okay, read it just very dryly. You know, things like that. Say it out loud, say it out loud. So that that's like, an example for email. And we've all had like those communication snafoos where it's like, that text was weird that that message was weird, the email all that stuff, because so many forms of communication are just like, essentially text messages right now.

Tammy 24:26
Nonverbal. And yes. Or sorry your saying text messages, like, it loses all the nonverbal components.

Dez 24:31
Exactly, yeah, you lose so much. Even versus like a phone call, which I mean, trying to millennial, I'm not a fan of phone calls, like you even those give you more information than an email. So when you're just working with that, your brain fills in a lot of gaps, which may not always be accurate. Right. So then you're responding to emotions that may not be present

Tammy 24:55
Yeah, that's true. It's kind of like, understanding not to take things personally all the time.

Dez 25:01

Yeah. And I mean, it goes back to something that you say so often, which is people are doing the best they can. So having the situations where like, there was that email that felt weird, someone cut you off in a meeting things like that. Notice your immediate response and check in around the well is that the case?

Tammy 25:24
Yeah, so we were talking about that. I'm not going to say the words. But we talked about how, like, if somebody didn't give a vegan option, how I could take that really personally and be like, you just don't care that I'm a vegan, you don't have any respect for me, blah, blah, blah. But really what emotional intelligence is would be like thinking about that situation and being like, Hmm, well, that's my immediate reaction. Do I think that that's accurate? And also, if you're not really sure, it helps you find a way to approach the other person? And ask about it? Yeah. So like, I think one thing I've learned, not one thing, I've learned a million things. But one thing that constantly sticks with me is like, if I get a feeling that something's going on, but I don't know what it is, I won't try and label it. I'll be like, it seems like something weird is going on here.

Dez 26:12
Well, that, that brings us to like another kind of step if we're going to make these any sort of steps. It would be like that awareness, like checking in and if you need to, like ask someone else. But then once it's kind of identified, take a beat like, take that pause. And, like, almost Let it be, you know, before there's any sort of response before there's any sort of action taken. Because especially if something happens, that triggers an emotional response, quickly. Strong, quick emotional response. You're not working with your full IQ, like your brain.

Tammy 26:53
I think it's like 30 points when we're angry. Yeah. Like, who has 30 points still?

Dez 26:58

Exactly.

Tammy 26:59

Nobody.

Dez 26:59
Yeah. But even like these quick moments, jumping to responses isn't always the best.

Tammy 27:08

Right.

Dez 27:09
It's rarely the best.

Tammy 27:10
Like I have said, For as long as I don't know a long freakin time. Like, I really admire people who are able to like, give quick stuff and like think on their feet. Whereas, I know that my process is more like, let me get back to you. Let me think about that. Like, because my first attempt isn't any where near my final one.

Dez 27:37

Yeah.

Tammy 27:38
And so for me, I have to take that space. So anyway, totally off topic. But I always, I always really appreciate those people.

Dez 27:46
No, like, taking a pause is good. And it doesn't have to be a long pause. I think that's the other thing, like it could be a breath to kind of just process and then moving forward or it could be longer to kind of investigate the situation. It really depends on how your what situation you're navigating.

Tammy 28:07
Yeah. And the other thing is not labeling what you think it is. Like, I think that person's mad at me. Like you felt something weird. And you're like, that person's mad at me. First of all, are you taking something personally, that isn't personal? So you can check in around that, but you're still pretty convinced that like, something's going on, but you don't know what it is. So I think a lot of times people are like, Are you mad at me? And really, that might not be the right question, because maybe they aren't mad, maybe it's something else. And so really asking, Hey, it seems like something's going on between us. And I don't know if you sense that too. But I'm just curious how you been reading that? Yeah. And that might open up a very fruitful discussion. Whereas Are you mad at me?, may or may not get it could make the person feel defensive. It can be like, no, they weren't. They were something else. So then they won't tell you because they're, they're responding truthfully to your question. But you're not quite asking the right question.

Dez 29:09
Well, that goes back to another level of curiosity around the well, what could the reason be? Like, if there is a tone in the email? Like, what is causing this person to be aggravated with me? Is there a reason? If so, then maybe it's worth acknowledging. Maybe it's that person's having a bad day, like giving space for it to be not about you.

Tammy 29:36

Yeah.

Dez 29:37
Like we're very self-centered. Yeah. Everybody, yeah. And everyone assumes that other things are about them when we're also so self-centered, that we're wrapped up in what's going on with us. So and like, this has happened between me and Tammy so many times where one person's like, Are you mad at me? And it's like, No, I'm just, I'm just just mad or I'm just aggravate, like, I just have things.

Tammy 30:04

Yeah.

Dez 30:05
You know, and it's not about the other person. So really kind of, you know, again, taking that moment and going through this kind of even, like, internal curiosity of could there be other things? Is it worth having conversation about? Or is it worth, like, moving on? And if it becomes a problem, then, you know,

Tammy 30:28
Yeah you could choose to just file it away.

Dez 30:30

Exactly.

Tammy 30:31
Like, like, here's an, here's a thing, and like, I'm just going to keep going, and oh, here's this other thing. And yeah, until you kind of get it see a pattern.

Dez 30:39
Or you could like defuse the situation, like, if you know, it's working towards a larger kind of process, a larger relationship than just letting it go. It's a completely viable option.

Tammy 30:51
Oh, totally. And I think like, Are you mad at me? Those kinds of questions, I think, I think back to like, so lot of learning how to do therapy is learning how to ask an effective question, or making a make an effective observation. And so like, one thing that, like, first year therapists almost always do, as they say, well, like, were you happy? Or were you mad? Or like, they start coming up with options for the client, when really you just have to say, how did you feel?

Dez 31:25
There's a reason that that's a cliche question.

Tammy 31:28
Right, I know. So like, everyone does it. And you have to learn how to move beyond that. But, but we do that in our personal lives, too. Like, I didn't know if you were like, mad at me, or if I done something wrong. Like, you're not asking the right question. So you want to keep it like, as broad as possible, to give the person the opportunity to answer Exactly. So. There's my tip,

Dez 31:54
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think really, it's, it's an art, it is not a science, emotional intelligence. It sounds sciencey. But it's actually one of the things that's a bit of an art form. And..

Tammy 32:12

It's both

Dez 32:13
Yeah, yeah, um, you're gonna get messy, you're gonna try, There's going to be mistakes that are made, it's not going to go well, sometimes. I think the important thing is to continue practicing and being aware of it. And really kind of refining your skills to the point where it does become almost second nature. Yeah, I think..

Tammy 32:37
I mean, it takes a lot of work to get there. But you can get there.

Dez 32:40
Oh, I mean, to this day, I still have to like, cognitively check in with myself to make sure that I'm not monopolizing conversations that networking events, because only child self centered, everything's about me. So like, I so much training. So many years later, I still have to remind myself and you have to text me sometimes I'm pointing at Tammy to be like, remember to ask questions.

Tammy 33:03

Yeah.

Dez 33:03
You know, so there's no like, final, like finish line or anything like that. We're all gonna have our strengths. Yeah, I'm really good at the looking in reading the room. But in terms of because emotional intelligence is all is also about like listening, and managing engagement, especially what like when we're talking networking events and stuff. It's, it's the interaction, not just the response.

Tammy 33:28
Well another thing that I was thinking about is like, 90, like 95%, of what you say has nothing to do with the word you're using. And one of the things we always work to kind of hone our skills when we're psychologist or therapist is like, what is the person saying, like, here's the words, but what are they saying? Like my kids having a meltdown when I asked about homework? Okay, so I can either kind of be upset about that, or I can hear what he's saying, which is, I can't do this on my own. It's super overwhelming. And I just can't face doing it. That's what he's saying, with the behavior and the things that he's doing. And that's an art. That is it just is and it's something you have to work on constantly. But I think

Dez 34:18

Practice, practice.

Tammy 34:19
But I think it's helpful, right? Because, like, there is that 95%. So it's really about finding that. I don't know, I think it's funny. When people are therapists like in a room all together, I feel like you just sit there and kind of like, ask open ended. And don't ever say anything. Like when we first started doing interviews, like I listened to some of them. And I was like, I would just do like a reframe and stop talking. And I'm like, yeah, it's really working here.

Dez 34:59
Which is another part of emotional intelligence, like looking back on your own interaction style. Yeah, things like that. Like, so much of it is rooted in that self awareness and checking in and practicing, because your interview style now is different than it was two years ago.

Tammy 35:17
Right, as you develop that skill, right? And you can talk about, like, different things for different roles, right. And so that kind of goes back to knowing when to pull out that skill. Knowing what to wear that outfit to a networking event.

Dez 35:30

Exactly.

Tammy 35:31
Versus is wearing this to go to work in my day job.

Dez 35:34

Yeah

Tammy 35:35
Yeah.

Dez 35:36
Mm hmm. I'm thinking like, emotional intelligence...

Tammy 35:40
Like i just killed the mood.

Dez 35:41
Well no, I really, like emotional intelligence is almost like a shade or a color. Like, you can pull out the jacket. But a purple jacket is going to do something different than a red jacket, you know, and how you if you interact from a place of emotional intelligence, your experiences going to be different than interacting.

Tammy 36:04
Right! Like, what does it say that I'm wearing? Looks okay, going back to like, when I was interviewing for internships and are you the one that wears the black suit? Are you the one that wears maybe black pants, but a different color jacket, but maybe in subdued tones? Are you the one who's wearing like a bright red jacket? Mm hmm. All those things, say something different. Mm hmm. So what are you saying? And like, how are you reading the room and where you're going?

Dez 36:37

Yeah.

Tammy 36:38
To say those things in an accurate way. So I think it is a lot about emotional intelligence, like you wearing a red jacket, like power, right, versus the interviewer in the black jacket, which says, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. I'm here and like appropriate attire, quote, unquote. And you know what I mean, now that says something different. So..

Dez 37:00
Yeah, it all comes back to being present in the moment. And being aware of the many moving pieces of a situation and stepping up and taking kind of like, your spot in all of it. Sometimes it's going to go well, and people are going to applaud you. And sometimes, it's not going to be great.

Tammy 37:25
And I think, remember that, I think what we're describing seems simple. But it can feel really overwhelming. Excuse me in the beginning, and feeling like, and you also have this feeling like I have to know everything. And what you kind of really figure out is that you don't have to know everything. You just have to know how to ask questions to find out.

Dez 37:52
Yeah, you don't have to know everything. It's starts with knowing your response.

Tammy 37:57

Yeah.

Dez 37:58

Yeah.

Tammy 37:59
Cuz like, Um.. sorry, I lost my train of thought I looked out the window, I lost my train of thought. So I don't mean to keep bringing it back to therapist, but I think emotional intelligence really speaks to the heart of like, what psychology is as a profession in that way. Early therapists think they have to know everything. Like what if the client asks me this? And I don't know. First Year me would have been like, I don't even know what I would do. I have to know everything. What if I don't know everything? I'm super anxious. And me now is like, I would just say, I don't know. And or, I don't know, let's find out together, like, there's lots of different ways to navigate that. Yeah. So like this idea of emotional intelligence. I don't want it to be like, if you have high emotional intelligence, you know, everything that's going on, and you can always accurately read the room and you always have the right response. And you always know everything.

Dez 38:53
No emotional intelligence is knowing like, I think about it in terms of like, more of an office setting. It's knowing when it's over. So let me think about it versus knowing when you better have some sort of an answer. In that one on one, or else that's going to look really it is knowing how to read the room. Yeah. And then processing what is expected of you in that moment and understanding how people are interacting with you as well.

Tammy 39:17
Right. So practice, practice, practice.

Dez 39:20
Exactly. Have fun with that, guys. Bye!

Tammy 39:24
Talk to you later! Bye friends!